New to internet sales

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fzr confused
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Re: New to internet sales

Post by fzr confused » 10 Mar 2009, 05:28

i agree with the statement about selling is much "safer" than buying online since you hold the power of not shipping until money is received. i would also recommend using paypal instead of taking checks. cashiers checks and money orders are some of the biggest counterfeit checks going around right now (that and those stimulus checks were a HUGE issue). even waiting 7-10 business days doesnt guarantee payment now a days. sure check 21 sped up the process of clearing checks, but onlye the real checks. the GOOD counterfeit checks will bounce around for up to 2 months before anyone notices anything is up. it is amazing how tweaking a few of those numbers will make it bounce back and forth between the feds.....

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Re: New to internet sales

Post by sabotteur » 10 Mar 2009, 08:42

Postal money orders seem to be the norm anymore. Like previously mentioned, certified checks are too easy to counterfit. Also, I think there are higher penalties with fraud when involving the post office. Keep in mind too though that anyone that uses a bad check to purchase a firearm has already commited a federal felony. Contact the ATF immediately if this ever happens to you for some reason. Paypal you have to becareful of. If they find out you are using them to facilitate a firearm transaction, they will more than likely ban your account. They are not very second amendment friendly.

If your going to buy a gun online, I suggest purchasing through a retailers website, someone like DSA, centerfire, AIM, military gun supply, Buds Gun Shop, etc. These guys have been in business for quite some time now. If you have any questions about reputable online dealers, just drop a line on the forums, I'm sure someone here will have dealt with them at some point and can give you feedback.

I also recommend gunbroker, but make sure you check the user ratings. Make sure that if they have a high number, it isn't all just as a buyer. You want to make sure they have done some selling too. Also, don't be turned off if someone has a rating of +1000 and has a negative or two. Having sold a number of things now on gunbroker, you'd be suprised how stupid some of your future customers are. They can't follow directions, don't read the auction details, try to renig on deals, etc. So, once you've done enough transactions on GB, your bound to get one or two negatives. So far I've been able to work through the two or three idiots I've had to deal with, but it has been a pain in the ass. Make sure that you check the shipping cost with any online auction, as alot of times the price will be right on the item your looking at, but you'll take it in the rear on the shipping and handling cost. This is where some of the dealers are trying to get back the fees that GB charges to sell.

I'd say the same for Auction Arms, though I'm less a fan of them than I am gunbroker. They follow an e-bay model, and tend to lend themselves more towards hunting and C&R weapons. I've purchased a few things through them, and other than some differences of opinion on item description, I've had good experiences.

Finally, and I hate to say this, having been prior service myself, do no ship to APOs if you are a seller. Back in the day, you could ship just about anything to an APO no worries. Now, depending on where the APO is you have to fill out a custom declaration form. Usually not a biggy, and the PO could care less if you ship gun parts (just no ammo or pistols) but the country your shipping to or the the one that the plane or truck has to travel through may raise a stink, and either detain your package or RTS it. I've had this happen twice now to guys buying stuff from me.

Oh, one last tip. Never buy something that has to be shipped from another country. There is a guy right now on auction arms selling 75 round norico drums for AKs. He is here in the states, and you send your money to him here in the states, and then he has the drum shipped from China. Having dealt with this type of arrangment a few years ago on trying to get some things from Russia, this will usually end up in you no receiving your stuff. In my case, the guy had his import license, but customs still ate half my shipment. It was too bad, as it was new handguards for a Tiger. I did get the magazines though, but something to be aware of. Best to buy from guys that have the stuff in their hands.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Last edited by sabotteur on 10 Mar 2009, 10:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New to internet sales

Post by sabotteur » 10 Mar 2009, 08:50

wetwrks wrote:UPS requires firearms to be shipped to an FFL via overnight delivery and must have an adult signature from the receiving FFL.

Think this is only for handguns, as I've had several long guns shipped via both UPS and FEDEX to my FFL from other FFLs and they have come Ground, or as I call it turtle. How it takes 11 days for a FNAR to go from a dealer in Idaho to Virginia is beyond me.

I'm in the process of setting up my UPS account and I'll make sure I get some clarification and let folks know the skinny.


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Re: New to internet sales

Post by f3rr37 » 10 Mar 2009, 08:51

Great tips Sabo.

Consider this thread sticky'd.

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Re: New to internet sales

Post by mickey223 » 10 Mar 2009, 18:19

I've probably bought and sold online more than I care to admit.

For Handguns...always, always transfer through an FFL no matter what. Have your dealer send it to his dealer. Even though it is legal to sale instate and transfer it is a lot less headache and worry.

For a long gun:

In state - you have the option of doing a face to face if agreable...if buying the seller may want a copy of your DL or CCW permit. If selling, you definitely want a copy of the buyer's drivers license and keep a record of the firearm and DL somewhere safe (I use a program called NM Collector JE, but there is a free program called gun safe that you can keep on a flash drive and store in a good fireproof box to record all transactions, you can even encrypt the drive, but that is a whole other topic)

Out of state - Package the rifle nicely, but do not seal and request the dealers FFL and phone number.
Verify the FFL with ATF ez-check
call the dealer and confirm that they will accept transfer from a non licensed individual...they usually require a copy of your DL for their records. (you can also verify that the rifle and magazines are legal in that person's state/local)
Make sure you let the buyer know up front that if he sends payment, but cannot accept the rifle legally, that you will with hold shipping and transfer costs backl to you.
Also, state who you are selling the rifle to and only that individual may accept the rifle (I actually had a guy purchase from me on and then have his wife try to accept trasnfer...turns out he had a felony conviction, I sent the dealer a money order and my dealers FFL to have the rifle sent back, once it was in my hands, I sent the guy a refund less fees)

Take the rifle to a UPS Customer Center. Be honest and notify them you have a rifle for shipment. Have you DL and a copy of the FFL handy. They will verify the contents of the box and make sure that there is NO AMMO with the rifle, they have to ship seperately.
After that, the friendly UPS person will seal the box and even put an ORM-D sticker on it for you.
If the person is not so nice and doesn't want to ship, politely ask to speak to the supervisor. If they aren't so nice, politely ask them to call UPS customer service. However, the Customer Center still has a right to refuse any shipment even if you are legally in the right. Be corteuos and leave.

Out of State purchase:
Verify, verify, verify...make sure you know who you are buying from and make sure they have some form of seller feedback.

Use a US Postal Service Money order, although not 100% you'll get your money back, they are the best for being able to track if the money order is cashed or not (just be sure to hold on to your reciept and the other half of the money order)

Most importantly, on the money order put the person's name and address as well as your name and address and what it is for.

Send the money order via priority mail with signature confirmation (keep the receipt) to a physical address, not a post office.

Make sure your dealer accepts from individuals and send a copy of the FFL with the money order. Also, request a copy of the sellers Drivers License and most importantly your name and phone number in the box with the rifle ( you know how many times I've had a rifle sitting at my dealers and he have no clue who ordered it?)

Once the money order shows delivered (2-3 days) verify with the seller receipt of money order and request shipping update....give no more than 3-4 days for shipping, but be polite.

Once shipped, request the tracking number so you can verify shipment, give no more than 2 days for this.

If you pay for it, and it doesn't ship, really you can not do anything until you verify with the postal service that the money order was cashed, which takes up to 60 days.
Take the receipt to the post office and fill out form 6401 at a cost of $5.20.
Once the money order has been verified cashed you can try contacting the local sheriffs department of the seller and see if they will work with you. However, most of the time they will tell you it is a civil matter and all you can do is get a good lawyer. Unless the person has defrauded several people, then they tend to consider it a criminal case. (please correct me if I am wrong)

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Re: New to internet sales

Post by hkusp40cal » 02 Apr 2009, 06:17

If you sent the money via the post office and you did not received the item promised you can go to the local post office and speak with the inspector and file a mail fraud complaint. It is amazing how quickly things get resolved after doing this. I had to do this on Ebay once when the seller ignored me for a month. Exactly 2 days after I filed the mail fraud complaint, my money was refunded.

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Re: New to internet sales

Post by wetdawg » 17 May 2009, 14:33

My experience with my FEDEX account is the same as Sabo explained above. Non-licensee can ship handguns Overnight to out-of-state FFL. Be prepared to show them receiver's FFL copy, put a copy in the box, along with your DL/CCW copy for their "record keeping", and make sure that they know that it's a firearm. They will automatically put the Adult Signature Required on the package.

And as said in the earliest posts - research your seller on the forum board. Are they for real, or just a trouble-maker?

Enjoy your new toy!

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