Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

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ewetstone
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Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by ewetstone » 20 Apr 2015, 13:58

I am seeing quite a bit of Elite Ammunition on Gunbroker recently being scalped like Eagles concert tickets.

I would like to know if any of it is some of the ammo that just sold out in about 90 minutes from Elite's website or if its old stock that a bunch of people just decided to sell for outrageous amounts??

Here is a few listings:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479249793" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =476466169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479441543" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479449720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479508340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479510235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479281133" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479095512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There maybe half a dozen more similar listings.

If some of this comes from the recent sale Elite just had....Well lets just say I would be extremely disappointed!
Last edited by ewetstone on 20 Apr 2015, 16:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by Rapier1772 » 20 Apr 2015, 15:40

479508340 is not EA, they just put EA in the title so that they show up in searches for EA.

Hey, someone with UltraRpaTORs...
Maybe I should sell what's left mine for equally ridiculous prices? I really could use the money :ponder:

Buying it just to flip it? Yeah, I kind of have a problem with it but technically, there is nothing wrong with do that. It's their property now so they can do what they want with it. We've had a few of these discussions before on here too.
I also think EA should be selling a few boxes on gunbroker.

If there is anything in the purchase process or whatever that says not for resale, then yeah it's a crappy thing to do. Otherwise just glare & snarl :laugh:
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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by NLVMike » 20 Apr 2015, 15:54

For decades, Ferrari built $100,000 cars, then watched them hit the resale auction for $1,000,000 a couple years later. Then they figured it out and started selling them for $1,000,000+. It seems to be working.

Not that I hope that is the future of EA ammo. When Jay is able to make the supply curve meet the demand curve, the market will determine the price. At least that's what I think they taught me in ECON 101.

I'm sitting on 100 rounds of S4M. I want to shoot it, but I can't replace it. When I can get more, I will load it up.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by blueorison » 20 Apr 2015, 17:51

If anyone does 2 minutes of math on the machining and component costs of EA rounds.. such as T6B,

they will realize EA is selling this at basically no margin.

This is why I will berate idiots who whine about the cost of EA.

Brand loyalty aside.

Then again, I just realized that those whiners usually are illiterate, so they probably can't do math :lmao:
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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by Buffman » 20 Apr 2015, 19:28

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479281133" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; LOL $400 for 50rds of PenetraTOR :\

EA's newest QR code has EA in the middle of it. The QR code is definitely newer ammo, but not this year new from what I remember.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by SirTexasSir » 20 May 2015, 21:34

Buffman wrote:http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =479281133 LOL $400 for 50rds of PenetraTOR :\

EA's newest QR code has EA in the middle of it. The QR code is definitely newer ammo, but not this year new from what I remember.
That funny a while back I bought two box's of them off gunbroker from EA, though it wasn't under a name for the company so I didn't know until I sent the money when Lisa emailed me the info. I got those two boxes for a little under half of what that person paid.

I have notice that some of the same folks are comming up on the sale list for the ammo, so I bet they buy every time a batch comes out and than turns around and sale it way higher. I refuse to buy from them, but I'm all so on the email list that goes out when EA has a new batch of ammo out. Two box's here and there will keep my special ammo stock where I want it so I can happily target practice with them too.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by panzermk2 » 25 May 2015, 22:55

Soon so soon the new EA brass will be flowing and this will be a distant memory.
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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by spyderco monkey » 26 May 2015, 04:49

panzermk2 wrote:Soon so soon the new EA brass will be flowing and this will be a distant memory.
Very excited to hear this. A new source of brass and readily available SD ammo will really breathe life into the cartridge.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by Vortec MAX » 26 May 2015, 06:44

panzermk2 wrote:Soon so soon the new EA brass will be flowing and this will be a distant memory.
I think I asked this already, but can't remember if you responded or not. Are you going to be lacquer coating your brass?

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by CPTKILLER » 26 May 2015, 07:51

OK. Any production improvement plans at EA?

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by panzermk2 » 26 May 2015, 19:37

Vortec MAX wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:Soon so soon the new EA brass will be flowing and this will be a distant memory.
I think I asked this already, but can't remember if you responded or not. Are you going to be lacquer coating your brass?

Mike

Yes it will be coated and my coating is better the FNH's.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by spyderco monkey » 26 May 2015, 21:38

panzermk2 wrote:
Vortec MAX wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:Soon so soon the new EA brass will be flowing and this will be a distant memory.
I think I asked this already, but can't remember if you responded or not. Are you going to be lacquer coating your brass?

Mike

Yes it will be coated and my coating is better the FNH's.
I know this is premature to ask, but is there any chance of down the road, creating a domestic version of the SS195 projectile for creating more S4 to go with the new brass?

Perhaps with a Corbins hydraulic swage press that either a) swages aluminum core projectiles b) if that is prohibited by patent, swaging zinc wire or c) uses a lead based FMJ with 1-2 Corbins bullet balls in the front, to create an unbalanced tumbling FMJ:
"Remarkable high velocity loads can be developed, such as a 2,000 fps .38 Special in a 2-inch barrel revolver, using a 50 grain .357 bullet that appears physically the same size as a typical 158 grain bullet."
http://www.corbins.com/bball.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would love to be able to order S4M by the 1,000 round case again.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by panzermk2 » 26 May 2015, 22:14

Already working on one and have been for awhile now. A couple different version actually.

The Corbin press can't swage aluminum, to do that takes roughly 5x that of lead.

Also mine has a target weight of 23 to 25 grains max.
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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by spyderco monkey » 27 May 2015, 04:57

panzermk2 wrote:Already working on one and have been for awhile now. A couple different version actually.

The Corbin press can't swage aluminum, to do that takes roughly 5x that of lead.

Also mine has a target weight of 23 to 25 grains max.
That sounds promising, what is the target velocity for something in that range? And would they have the same OAL of the ss195 projectile?

I've been pondering a sort of hyrbid of the original SS90 projectile, which was entirely plastic cored and weighed 23 grains.

The new projectile (SS900) would have a mostly polymer core, and then a lead base to cause it to tumble. Target weight of about 30-35 grains so that it would maintain good velocity, while also being able to meet the 12" that I believe the original SS90 lacked?

I also think the SS900 could be a fantastic projectile for the 8" AR15 pistols, which don't seem to perform well with standard 5.56 projectiles.

Would a Corbins press be able to swage a plastic core? The cores could either be purpose built through injection molding (ideal), or if that was cost prohibitive, simply compressed commercial plastic pellets used for injection molding, or even short sections of 0.17" weed wacker line.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by CPTKILLER » 27 May 2015, 06:10

I'm assuming that production capacity will then remain where it is.

Too bad because the scale of production can reduce costs and make more ammo available less expensively.

I've spent a career doing and that and still do. It is all a capital cost issue versus marketing and sales. Space for production and warehouse or storage is an issue. The other piece of this is in-house versus contract manufacturing. You've already had issues with contract manufacturing Jay Wolf.

Tough choices.

Contact me about this if you like, I did this professionally and still do for more than 30 years.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by panzermk2 » 27 May 2015, 10:55

spyderco monkey wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:Already working on one and have been for awhile now. A couple different version actually.

The Corbin press can't swage aluminum, to do that takes roughly 5x that of lead.

Also mine has a target weight of 23 to 25 grains max.
That sounds promising, what is the target velocity for something in that range? And would they have the same OAL of the ss195 projectile?

I've been pondering a sort of hyrbid of the original SS90 projectile, which was entirely plastic cored and weighed 23 grains.

The new projectile (SS900) would have a mostly polymer core, and then a lead base to cause it to tumble. Target weight of about 30-35 grains so that it would maintain good velocity, while also being able to meet the 12" that I believe the original SS90 lacked?

I also think the SS900 could be a fantastic projectile for the 8" AR15 pistols, which don't seem to perform well with standard 5.56 projectiles.

Would a Corbins press be able to swage a plastic core? The cores could either be purpose built through injection molding (ideal), or if that was cost prohibitive, simply compressed commercial plastic pellets used for injection molding, or even short sections of 0.17" weed wacker line.

Corbin would have no issue with polymer core.

Yes the size and shape if the bullet will be very close to current 195/198

Velocities will be higher. If I can get it down to 21 or 22 grains we could see 3000 fps from the pistol.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

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Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by panzermk2 » 27 May 2015, 10:57

CPTKILLER wrote:I'm assuming that production capacity will then remain where it is.

Too bad because the scale of production can reduce costs and make more ammo available less expensively.

I've spent a career doing and that and still do. It is all a capital cost issue versus marketing and sales. Space for production and warehouse or storage is an issue. The other piece of this is in-house versus contract manufacturing. You've already had issues with contract manufacturing Jay Wolf.

Tough choices.

Contact me about this if you like, I did this professionally and still do for more than 30 years.

Our in house brass system will run at 240 pieces an minute. This include the high speed annealer and case head trimmer to keep up.

That will drastically reduce per case costs.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

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Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by spyderco monkey » 27 May 2015, 18:13

panzermk2 wrote: Corbin would have no issue with polymer core.

Yes the size and shape if the bullet will be very close to current 195/198

Velocities will be higher. If I can get it down to 21 or 22 grains we could see 3000 fps from the pistol.
That sounds very impressive. Are you thinking that it would be a jacketed projectile like the 195, lathe turned like the T6 series, or perhaps injection moulded/ MIM?

For the later I've been doing a bit of research, there are several lightweight metal alloys that can be injection moulded in standard plastic injection machines.

Here is a zinc/aluminum alloy:
http://marketplace.yet2.com/app/insight ... 82?sid=200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here is Polycase, who manufactures the very interesting ARX projectile (worth checking out the gel tests if you haven't seen it yet.) They are injection molding a lightweight Copper/Polymer alloy projectile now:
http://www.polycaseammo.com/products/inceptor-arx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A lightweight, "spoon tip" projectile would be relatively simple to injection mold, although I don't know what alloy would get you into the 21gr range while maintaining suitable OAL.

It would definitely be good to have a high performance, tumbling projectile that could be fabricated in a cost effective manner, and in sufficient quantities to keep up with your 240 cases per minute.

Exciting times.

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Re: Elite Ammunition being Scalped on Gunbroker

Post by MikeSantor » 29 May 2015, 16:49

panzermk2 wrote:Soon so soon the new EA brass will be flowing and this will be a distant memory.
Awesome news. Now that Im done working a zillion hours a week and have time to actual shoot, I need to get my hands on some more EA. Im down to my last 100 rounds and its the stuff Im not shooting "for fun".

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