New Custom Slide Cover (Plastic with front slide serrations)

Discuss the FN Five-seveN line of pistols and accessories.

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by fooschnickens » 22 Nov 2012, 07:44

Valorius wrote:While i LOVE the look of the new slide cover, there is literally no way in hell i would ever pay $100 for one. Half of that...maybe.

My interest in this product went from extremely high, to none, due to pricing concerns.

IMO the market for this product at that price point is extremely limited.
I bet you passed up the 25 cent gumball machines for the 5 cent ones whenever you could.

Honestly I could make a wall of text telling you just how idiotic your posts make you look but I know it's wasted effort since you'd either never look at it or completely miss the point of it.
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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Valorius » 22 Nov 2012, 08:25

If it makes you feel any better, i literally do not care in the slightest bit what your opinion is of me. I do know this, on the two forums where there are "rep point" systems that i post at, i am ranked #1 on one of them, and in the top 5 on the other...and they're both much higher traffic sites than this one.

Pa2a.org
PAFOA.org

Same user name as here on both.

Furthermore, i cannot recall not even one single post you have ever made in any way whatsoever. At least my posts are memorable to you...

The man is making a product. I am a potential customer. In fact, i am a highly enthusiastic potential customer, I am giving him FREE market feed back. At that price point, even though i'm highly interested: I would not buy the product. I then listed the price point where i WOULD by the product.

This is highly useful info to any business person.

WTF is your problem?

As far as my contributions to this site and community: I posted videos of several loads against IIIA vests that confirm all of Buffman's tests, and i tested some combos he didn't test. I also tested numerous 5.7mm rounds vs hard fiberglass plate armor and posted the results. I also posted the working fix for the 30rd mags that is 100% reliable.

I am the one that put up the video that shows SS195LF can defeat a 25 layer IIIA vest with ballistic stab protection. Prior to my video, everyone reported based on zero video evidence that IIIA will stop SS195....it won't. SS195 actually appears to have slightly superior velocity performance as SS192 based on actual user chrono data, which also defeats IIIA.

I also posted the first official WRITTEN response from FNH ammo division wrt the shelf life of their SS195 and SS198 LF ammo, just today.

So yeah, have a nice day. :)

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Rapier1772 » 22 Nov 2012, 09:41

Valorius is allowed to have and state his opinion as is everyone else, provided there are no personal attacks.
I disagree with Val's opinion as well but there is no need for insults.

Keep the thread on topic and civil.
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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by MikeSantor » 22 Nov 2012, 13:26

Do I want to pay $100 for one? No.

Will/Am I? Yes.

I like it that much...

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Crawfish80 » 22 Nov 2012, 17:27

Agree that $100.00 seems fair market price for this.

Sign me up for one with the Zombie Bio Warning!

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Onejzsupra » 22 Nov 2012, 17:51

Like I said before.... He is one man providing a product that no one else on the market makes, while FN can make a bunch he may not have the time, resources or over head to produce these like a large company would..... $100 pays for all of that (required materials, tools, time, man power, shipping, time, man power and did I say time?).

I do agree with Rapier, if that's how he feels about the product that's up to him. no reason to get crazy because he doesn't want to be one of the cool kids and buy one when it comes out = P

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by s-industries » 22 Nov 2012, 19:28

Well, I appreciate the feedback. I don't mind losing a customer if that person feels the product value is less than what it costs me to produce it.

There's a good way to say things and a bad way to say things (obviously). Val, I think you tend to gravitate towards the latter (IMO), which is why folks get a tad snippy with you. If I somehow get this custom product down to OE pricing, I'll definitely let you know. Thanks for the initial interest.

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Cyberfly » 22 Nov 2012, 21:53

Some people have a way with words.
Some people's words are smooth like liquid silk. Other people's words are smooth like 50 grit sandpaper that rips the flesh and leaves bloody scratches that fester and get infected.
I can think of at least two people on this site who could be used to strip paint on a regular basis...
But, if I still had my FsN, I would jump on one of these covers. I love the design, the look, the color...just about everything about it. I wish I had the resources to have tried it myself.
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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by panzermk2 » 23 Nov 2012, 13:40

s-industries wrote:I have most of the modifications done to the drawing and hope to have prototype #2 done by Christmas. I don't have photos of the red dot mount because I haven't had one manufactured yet. I'm still working on the insert design so there's definitely still some work to do.

I've gotten a few messages concerning price so I want to comment to avoid folks getting their hopes up thinking this will be on the same level as the OE part. Please remember that this is a low volume custom part, so I have zero leverage on pricing. I think it'll come in at around $100 (not including a red dot mount), so I hope this doesn't price it out of the market. I apologize for any pain caused by jaws hitting the floor, but it is what it is.

I still have people giving me a hard time that compared to white box winchester 9mm our ammo is over priced.
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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by blueorison » 23 Nov 2012, 14:08

panzermk2 wrote:
s-industries wrote:I have most of the modifications done to the drawing and hope to have prototype #2 done by Christmas. I don't have photos of the red dot mount because I haven't had one manufactured yet. I'm still working on the insert design so there's definitely still some work to do.

I've gotten a few messages concerning price so I want to comment to avoid folks getting their hopes up thinking this will be on the same level as the OE part. Please remember that this is a low volume custom part, so I have zero leverage on pricing. I think it'll come in at around $100 (not including a red dot mount), so I hope this doesn't price it out of the market. I apologize for any pain caused by jaws hitting the floor, but it is what it is.

I still have people giving me a hard time that compared to white box winchester 9mm our ammo is over priced.
Yeah, I mean, why AREN'T EA's prices the same as .22LR?! I can get .22LR at 18$ a box of FIVE HUNDRED ALL DAY.


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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by fd57 » 23 Nov 2012, 14:41

Can you PM or share the quantity price? IE, what numbers do you need to order in order to set the price at X, Y or Z?

Perhaps you could get a pre-order system in place that would result in a higher initial order resulting in a lower acquisition cost?

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Crawfish80 » 23 Nov 2012, 15:18

I was wondering about the aluminum or titanium prices my self...I know would cost a pretty penny! Just wondering though!

Although it could really affect the weapons performance, adding extra weight to the firearm...

Any thoughts on that people?

Or on that note, what if you got one of the extended barrels and had a slide that covered it?
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13541" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some one said that they now could get a 3" longer barrel...what would that do to the performance of the 5.7....

Just some ideas, crazy as they might be!

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by blueorison » 23 Nov 2012, 16:01

Crawfish80 wrote:I was wondering about the aluminum or titanium prices my self...I know would cost a pretty penny! Just wondering though!

Although it could really affect the weapons performance, adding extra weight to the firearm...

Any thoughts on that people?

Or on that note, what if you got one of the extended barrels and had a slide that covered it?
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13541" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some one said that they now could get a 3" longer barrel...what would that do to the performance of the 5.7....

Just some ideas, crazy as they might be!
1. One would not want to add weight to the slide. It's negative shootability, performance and reliability.
2. Quality longer barrels always = more velocity.

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by s-industries » 23 Nov 2012, 16:03

Check EA's sub forum for info on the longer barrel. Truehuntersupply is checking into some different options as well. I already have a cover design modified to cover the longer barrels, but I'm sure it will be substantially more expensive.

I posted a drawing of the preliminary design for this a while back. I had that design quoted in aluminum but the cost was over $800....

Titanium would be too heavy, not to mention the cost. Aluminum with a red dot is borderline too heavy, based on input from various forum members (discussed in the thread I mentioned).

I don't think those are crazy ideas at all. That's why I've already looked into them :)

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Crawfish80 » 23 Nov 2012, 21:32

Yes I just like to put stuff out there!

The 3 inch longer barrel with a custom plastic slide cover would definitely be something that I would like to see!

Might not be the best concealed weapon but it should make for some interesting stats at the range!

Although I am a big guy, I am sure that I could figure something out.

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by xman » 25 Nov 2012, 12:05

I might be interested as well.

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Valorius » 27 Nov 2012, 13:12

Don't get me wrong...i love the product. However, i am not rich, and $100 is more than i can justify for what is, essentially, a piece of plastic.

Were the economy and work better, i would probably still buy one for $100, and definitely for $75. I'm just sayin', in this economic climate, i could not justify more than $50 for this product. And IMO, at $50 per, the OP would sell LOTS of these, making a cheaper price more feasible anyway.

Regardless: I think it looks COMPLETELY badass.
s-industries wrote:Well, I appreciate the feedback. I don't mind losing a customer if that person feels the product value is less than what it costs me to produce it.

There's a good way to say things and a bad way to say things (obviously). Val, I think you tend to gravitate towards the latter (IMO), which is why folks get a tad snippy with you. If I somehow get this custom product down to OE pricing, I'll definitely let you know. Thanks for the initial interest.
I am just bluntly honest. Nothing i say on here is ever intended to be delivered with malice or spite. Just cold hard black and white blunt honesty. Sometimes the blunt unfiltered truth (or a reasoned critique) can be taken as an insult when it is in no way intended as one. Some people even prefer the blunt truth to "diplomatic speak."

When a product is kick ass, IMO, i post it all over the web saying so. Just google the key words Valorius+Elite+S4M+5.7mm to see what i'm talking about. I worship at the altar of that sadly now discontinued Elite Ammo offering.

When one is over priced TO ME....same thing. Example: The slidefire stock. SUPER NEAT idea and product, but no freaking way i'd ever pay the retail price for one. At the retail price, it is in all honesty, a flat out rip off. I could only imagine the profit margin they're making on those things. Perhaps i'm just envious. ;)

Note that i am not saying YOU are making an unfair profit or gouging, just that all things taken together, the product is TO ME, out of my realistic budget. TO ME, a realistic budget for this product is $50. Though i admit at $75 i'd be tortured, and probably buy one anyway.

So here's hoping it really catches on and the second batch comes in at $75 or less. :D

PS: I'm posting a link to your slide cover on the big five seven threads on both of the sites i post on.

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by fd57 » 28 Nov 2012, 05:34

Agreed. $100 is steep compared to factory replacement at $7. So maybe a larger run can be made if interest is there so cost will go down.

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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by Esteves » 28 Nov 2012, 17:31

The funny thing about most manufacturing is that economies of scale don't usually kick in until thousands or even millions of units are on the table. Before hitting those thresholds, the r&d and setup costs are the biggest factors. Most consumers have no idea what effort goes into those aspects and have become accustomed to purchasing finished goods at price points that are not too far from the cost of the raw materials.
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Re: New Slide Cover (Plastic)

Post by s-industries » 28 Nov 2012, 20:53

Yes, I would sell tons of these if they were $50, and I would lose money on each sale....good business?

Add up all the parts you can buy from MWG for your FsN and you'll get a real feeling for paying waaaay too much for something. The FsN (excluding the barrel and breech face) is a combination of the cheapest high volume manufacturing methods currently available (MIM, IM plastic, and stamped metal). FN understands value, which is why we all paid ~$1k for a gun composed of a few $5 parts (yes, this is a bit of an exaggeration, but not as bad as you might think).

I agree with those of you who think $100 is too much. If I could sell it for $50....I'd sell it for $75 and make good money. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury. I've checked my options, and could sell these for $7-$10 each if I thought it would justify the $8,000 injection molding tool. It's the same way with my adjustable trigger (coming soon, hopefully). If I could sit on a stock of 1,000 parts and the $5k MIM tool, I could sell them for around $30. Instead I'm stuck making low volume, machined-from-billet parts that are coming in at around $110 or so.

As for volume pricing. $100 is based on me ordering 10 covers at once. Seeing as how there's been about 3 people actually say something to the effect of 'I'll buy one,' that's a big risk.

I'm not trying to be spiteful here, or show any disrespect to those who don't like the expected price tag. Just explaining where the cost comes from and trying to elaborate a bit on what Esteves said about economics of scale.

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